| This question <589|557> overall <616|617-1> Pinky: <588|31>. |
| Question 743: Thread 743 |
| [617] Pinky: Chacci Chacci wrote: |
| I think that I did not get my point across. My point was that without a poor labor class there would be no way that anyone could become rich (or recive Pell Grants). |
| My first question is, how does becoming rich correlate with receiving Pell Grants? Maybe you thought they are given to the wealthy? I'm not sure what you meant, but the pairing of these two as relating issues confused me. If that was the notion, that is not a correct defenition of the requirements for receiving Pell Grants; rather, the opposite is true. A student must be living in virtual poverty status (as defined by the Gov.'t), and must usually have at least one child. It is actually quite hard for a person to be poor enough to qualify for the Grant. |
| Chacci continues: |
| In a society such as ours it would be incredibly naive to think that the government doesnAEt keep certain people down. We can look at history and see that this is the case. A few examples, segregation during the sixties, lower pay for women and minorities, strikes being “broken” by shear brutal and violent force. |
| As I noted with my welfare idea, I agree. I also see what you are saying. While the government usually turned their heads to such dispicable acts, it even enforced via military power such beliefs. Though the government has tried to establish laws and such that are meant to avoid such activity, they cannot outlaw ignorance. Today, I think the majority of discrimination is an act of individuals, who are often in violation of the laws themselves. |
| In many ways, the remedies that were put in place to solve such problems have gone too far (in my own opinion). The government has participated and supported many beliefs that serve to penalize people unfairly. My feeling is, that most of the modern day penalties exist within the systems put into place that were meant to “help people.” So, I don't disagree with your assessment of history, I was simply giving my input as to the current detremental effects of government. You may not agree, but please don't infer that I must then be blind to historical mistakes of the American government. |
| Chacci concludes: |
| If people believe that there is equality, I would invite them to visit Midvale Elementary, were there is large population of poor students. Then I would invite them to visit Albion Elementary. Then come tell me about equality! Society would like us to think like PINKY, with his comments like “I believe that many welfare programs do indeed act to suppress people by supplying the false notion within its recipients that they are not capable of success, thank heavens the good ol' government is there to pay those bills!” Is this the cause or the effect of inequality? |
| Umm, here is where I get especially confused. You seem to be saying that these these illusions were espoused by me. I have read my submission over and over and, over again, and I can not find any statement that I thought could be interpreted to mean that I believed that there was equality. I know that there is not equality, and to be painfully frank, I feel it is neccesary that we do not try to act as if it is or should be. (sorry!, I realize that I see things in a much more “blunt” manner than many of you.) People are not equal. People grow and learn and explore. They do it at their own pace, difined often by their own feelings. This may mean that they are outrageously succesful or badly off. Poor people are good just as wealthy people are. Good and bad can easily be found in both pots. The poor have just been subjected to different circumstances and may have made decisions that did not serve them well. I know plenty of loosers that were children of the wealthy. I also know plenty of people who have emerged from poverty to find success. Remember that one guy, Abe Lincoln? I am afraid that treating people as though they are supposed to be equal is doing a great disservice to the entire population. The big guy can lose his shirt the same day the little guy achieves success. People, situations, needs, desires, etc., vary from person to person--ALWAYS! |
| In summary, to answer your last question, I think it (welfare) is BOTH the cause and effect of inequality. It is the cause because it breeds a sense of dependancy on the government, and not yourself. I believe that such a response is greatly detremental. It is the effect because the government wants to replace your family, friends and community, to validate their “angelic” jobs. This feeling sinks in and fosters a sense of not having to help your family, friends, and neighbors. I think you could go so far as to say, it is “Alienating” people from those around them. This can also lead to behavior that exemplifies a serious absence of symathy, respect, or love for others. When people do not help and depend on one another, these feelings can be much harder to attain. |
| Practical Pinky |
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